THE MORE OBSCURE CATHOLIC SAINTS PART ONE

In a nod to Robert as in: Robert the apathetic sanctimonious sinner and toilet cleaner  I've decided to run a series on the more obscure Catholic saints. Robert seems to have a fascination for these 'saints' and the obscurer and nuttier the better. His latest is Mary of Jesus of Ágreda or, as he calls her Maria of Aggradda or Marie of Aggredda. It probably doesn't matter as she's pretty insignificant in the scheme of things as far as the Catholic Church goes but her fame and influence is more suited to Spanish political history:

Mary of Jesus of Ágreda  also known as the Abbess of Ágreda (2 April 1602 – 24 May 1665), was a Franciscan abbess and spiritual writer, known especially for her extensive correspondence with King Philip IV of Spain and reports of her blocation between Spain and its colonies in New Spain (America). She was a noted mystic of her era.

Well that, from Wikipedia was OK except for the nonsense of bilocation which enthrals Robert. Wikipedia goes on: 

A member of the Order of the Immaculate Conception, also known as Conceptionists, Mary of Jesus wrote 14 books, including a series of revelations about the life of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Her bilocation activity is said to have occurred between her cloistered monastery in rural Spain and the Jumano Indians of central New Mexico and West Texas, as well as Tucson, and inspired many Franciscan missionaries in the New World. In popular culture since the 17th century, she has been dubbed the Lady in Blue and the Blue Nun, after the color (sic) of her order's habit.

Apart from that wine reference there, the rest is gobbledygook. How could anyone write 14 books on the 'Blessed Virgin Mary'? Also, who on earth (or anywhere) could believe in bilocation and the fact that a cloistered nun 'flys' off regularly to visit some Indians in America. I mean, what did the Indians think and did anyone think to ask them? Maybe Mary of Jesus of Ágreda could join the ranks of Marvel superheroes. I'm sure that bilocation would be a pretty good power that the audience of children and sad older men could get into.

"Sorry, I've got to go. I'm hearing the final boarding call to New Mexico in my head."

Anyway, back to my series on obscure saints.

It's quite fitting that the first one up is Saint Jude (there is a prize for the first person who spots the pun).

Like many of the saints, Saint Jude cannot be sufficiently “explained.”  It's better  to sit back and simply hear the stories that have been made up about him. Here is one:

Kissing other men.

One day while Jude was praying to his god, he received an answer: “Hey Jude, if you want to know my will, you must hate and despise all that which hitherto your body has loved and desired to possess. Once you begin to do this, all that formerly seemed sweet and pleasant to you will become bitter and unbearable, and instead, the things that formerly made you shudder will bring you great sweetness and content.”

Jude was comforted by these words and  wondered how he could act on them.

One day, as he was having a quiet ale in a tavern, he met a homosexual man. He had always felt an overpowering horror of homosexual men, but making a great effort, he conquered his aversion, approached him and kissed his hand. The homosexual man then gave Jude the kiss of peace, after which he left the tavern and went home.

Some days later he took a large sum of money to the tavern, and gathering all the customers together, he gave them alms, kissing each of them. Formerly he could neither touch or even look at homosexual men, but when he left them on that day, what had been so repugnant to him had really and truly been turned into something pleasant.

Indeed, his previous aversion to homosexual men had been so strong, that, besides being incapable of looking at them, he would not even approach the places where they frequented. But, strengthened by God’s grace, he was enabled to obey the command and to love what he had hated and to abhor what he had hitherto wrongfully loved.

There are many other stories made up about Saint Jude and, maybe later, after we've looked at other obscure saints I can recount them. Needless to say, Jude's actions in this and other ways brought him to the notice of his god (via the auspices of Bishop Prismatic of Padua) and he was canonised for his actions.

WAS JESUS GAY?

 You know that The Religious Curmudgeon, and indeed, all of The Curmudgeons in The Curmudgeons Inc.ⓒ brings interesting bits of news, fact and fiction to you unencumbered by the need for exactitude. "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story" is our motto borrowed from that great raconteur Samual Clement.

Every now and then I come across some items that will be of interest to the many blog followers - in this case Robert the irreverent sanctimonious sinner and toilet cleaner will be pleased to hear of my findings.

Was Jesus a gay?

Before we analyse the data that has come to hand (no distasteful jokes please Richard) it's worth noting that if Jesus had been gay - or homosexual as 'gay' as a term is only of 20th century origin - then that could only be a good thing for millions of oppressed and repressed people around the world. The Catholic Church for a start could open its doors (and closets) to let in (and out) a multitude of new members (no pun intended) and free up its own clergy to allow them to live normal lifestyles or at least normal to the LGBQT community. Who knows, it could even lead to The Catholic Church admitting that women too are normal and can function in society like men and be admitted to the clergy. Marriage between clergy, whether male of female could at last be sanctioned and everyone (especially pre-teen boys and girls in convent schools) can breathe a sigh of relief.

But, let's not get ahead of ourselves and let's look at the 'data'.

At the crucifixion of Jesus, we are told that all of the disciples (apostles included) had buggered off leaving only Jesus's mum and his 'special friend' John.

 "When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman behold your son!' Then he said to the disciple. 'Behold your mother!' And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home."

The Gospels tell us that Jesus loved John  in a special way.  In all images of the Last Supper John is next to Jesus, very close and sometimes holding his hand, kissing him or resting his head on Jesus's breast. 

As a  Hebrew rabbi, it was unusual that Jesus hadn't married particularly that, in his 30s it would have been considered his middle age at the time. In past posts I've suggested that Jesus had been having some kind of affair or relationship with Mary Magdalene but this could just be romantic fiction put about by Jesus's spin doctors as there is no evidence in the Bible that it was so. There is very strong evidence however that Jesus was gay or bisexual. John the Apostle himself said in his Gospel that he was:

"The "disciple whom Jesus loved" (John 21:24) 

 Saint Aelred of Rievaulx in De spiritali amicitia ("Spiritual Friendship"), referred to the relationship of Jesus and John the Apostle as a "marriage" and held it out as an example sanctioning friendships between clerics.

The Gospel of Mark describes how in the Garden of Gethsemane, "A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When the temple guards seized Jesus, he fled naked, leaving his garment behind." (Mark 14:51–52). It reminds me of that scene in Something about Mary when the cops busted up  the rest-stop:

And you remember how that turned out:

Remember that Jesus hung out with sailors a lot. I'm not suggesting that all sailors are gay - I'm not some sort of bigot and, you know me, I don't jump to conclusions but I'm just saying that a lot of those apostles and disciples that Jesus hung out with were 'fishermen'. It gets lonely in a boat out on the water OK?

Jesus liked to wash feet:

OK, not necessarily anything to see here but .....

Just so you don't get the idea that it's just me raising the possibility that Jesus was gay I looked on-line and there has been a lot of discussion of this both in and without the Christian Churches. The Anglicans more so than the Catholics but then they are more open-minded and reasonable people. I like what  Jules Suzdaltsev wrote in VICE back on 6th July 2015:

"After the Supreme Court's historic ruling on gay marriage, it seemed like all the proudly homophobic Christians came out of the woodwork to talk about how much they still hate gay people. As a straight Jew, the homophobia amongst Jesus's followers has always struck me as a bit of a surprise: Worshipping at the feet of a ripped, hung man, seems at least a little homoerotic. But it's Jesus himself who lights up my gaydar like a Christmas tree. He's a skinny young otter-like guy, flocked by a mess of dudes, telling everyone to love and care about each other, who later gets the shit beaten out of him by a bunch of closed-minded conservatives who are terrified of change."

****************

In his Guardian article, 'Was Jesus gay? Probably', Paul Oestreicher (The Guardian 20th April 2012) summed it up nicely:

"Heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual: Jesus could have been any of these. There can be no certainty which. The homosexual option simply seems the most likely. The intimate relationship with the beloved disciple points in that direction. It would be so interpreted in any person today. Although there is no rabbinic tradition of celibacy, Jesus could well have chosen to refrain from sexual activity, whether he was gay or not. Many Christians will wish to assume it, but I see no theological need to. The physical expression of faithful love is godly. To suggest otherwise is to buy into a kind of puritanism that has long tainted the churches. 

Whether Jesus was gay or straight in no way affects who he was and what he means for the world today. Spiritually it is immaterial. What matters in this context is that there are many gay and lesbian followers of Jesus – ordained and lay – who, despite the church, remarkably and humbly remain its faithful members. Would the Christian churches in their many guises more openly accept, embrace and love them, there would be many more disciples. "

WHERE DOES HE FIND THEM?

 Robert the sanctimonious silly catholic sinner and toilet cleaner is forever uncovering crazy religious people who are deemed saints by the even crazier Catholic Church.

You may remember Sister Mary Fruitloop, Saint Polycarp of Smyna, Padre Pio, Saint Faustina, Saint Lutgardis of Aywières and others.

Now he's uncovered another nutter Marie of Agreda. See:

This Marie of Agreda was really off the wall, believing that she could appear in two places at once (bilocation) like that weird Padre Pio and wrote treatises on the Virgin Mary. She also wrote a job description for the Archangel Michael.

What next?

I'm sure that Robert will be able to find many more crazies on his own but I wonder if he knows of Sister Mary Tourette? Just in case he hasn't here's a prayer that Sister Mary Tourette wrote back in the nineteenth century. It hasn't found much favour in the Catholic Church but - early days eh.

"Dear Lord, I pray that you BASTARD!.. sorry... would give me strength to be strong for You FUCKING ARSEHOLE! .... sorry... in the world today. Lord, you know the s..s... SHIT! .. sorry ... struggles that I will f..f.. FUCK! .. sorry .. face today. Be with me as I go through them. Carry me if I am too w.. w.. WANKER! .. sorry ...weak to move.

Lord, I need peace. I want peace I want A PIECE OF ARSE! ... sorry ... Show me what peace looks like. May I experience more of Your ... PRICK! .. sorry .. peace this week. AH MEN! ...sorry .. Amen."

     

         - Sister Mary Tourette.

AND NOW FOR A LITTLE BIT OF NONSENSE

 

In case you missed them here are some of Robert's comments on the blogs over the last week:

(It must have been so silly that Richard deleted it)

And those are just his comments. Whew! You should read his posts.*

* No, you shouldn't

****************************

Being Sunday, around the country there'll be a lot more nonsense said in churches - in sermons, in readings of the Gospels, in other readings from the bible and in the mumblings of an old guy who will be saying the rosary beneath a statue of The 'Virgin' Mary.

Here's an insight into some of the silly things that might be said:*

–It’s a mortal sin to get a tattoo or piercing other than a single hole in the earlobe for girls, and boys have no exceptions. This is because the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and you’re not supposed to decorate temples. Certain indigenous people are allowed to get piercings within reason, however, because “it’s part of their culture.” But you have to watch out for the difference between “false culture” and “authentic culture.” (Details about which culture is false and which is authentic were not available upon request.)

–The orgasm is a nasty result of the Fall of Man. A man’s orgasm is unfortunately necessary for procreation, although he shouldn’t try to think about it or like it very much. A woman’s orgasm is a sin and ought to be avoided. Also, it’s a sin to use your hands during coitus except to keep your balance. It’s a sin for engaged couples to fall asleep in the same room even if they’re far apart and even if there are witnesses present. It’s the sin of scandal for engaged couples to go to the early morning Mass together, for fear anyone would think they spent the night before together. Furthermore, it’s a sin to look at yourself in the mirror naked, and you should use a thick washcloth in the shower and pray the whole time so you won’t accidentally stimulate yourself. And God is insulted if you pray on the toilet. (For the one who invented genitals, God seems awfully squeamish about them.)

–Speaking of horrid things that happen in the bathroom, Jesus and the Virgin Mary never had bowel movements because such dirtiness was below them, but Saint Joseph probably did. Also, Saint Joseph occasionally ate meat but Jesus and Mary were pescatarians. (No, I don’t understand how this person thinks Jesus observed the Passover. Maybe He just ate the bitter herbs.)
–Since the documents of Vatican II don’t specifically withdraw the requirement for women to wear veils at Mass, veils are still required and it’s a sin for women to go to Mass bareheaded. (People who say this tend to be against Vatican II anyway.)

–Natural disasters happen because God withdraws a country’s guardian angel to punish them for their sins. This leaves the country vulnerable to hurricanes, earthquakes and the like. Fortunately, God likes to randomly select certain innocent souls as “victims” to get stricken with sufferings and bad luck so that the countries whose guardian angels are withdrawn will not have quite such terrible weather. Victims also get stricken so that souls which God condemned to purgatory in the first place can be ransomed from His own self. If you’re sick and getting prayed over hasn’t worked for you, rejoice, because you might be a victim soul. (These people seem to think that God is an abusive drunk who chases his children around the house trying to catch and beat one of them when He’s angry.)

–The world is never going to come to an end because the Bible says “world without end, Amen.” What’s actually going to happen is that Our Lady of Fatima is going to graciously send a disaster which will kill millions of people, followed by an “era of peace.” This will be a good thing. (The Virgin Mary often comes off as even worse than the abusive drunk God to people taken in by Apparition Culture.)

–It’s a sin to disbelieve private revelation, especially the visions of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich and everything purporting itself to come from Fatima no matter how asinine. It’s a sin to disbelieve anything a saint said even where two saints disagree. It’s a sin to privately think that certain saints, like Saint Pio, were actually jerks and went to Heaven in spite of this; you have to find every saint’s eccentricities endearing. In addition, it’s also a sin not to have a spiritual director and to disobey said spiritual director no matter what they tell you to do, even if you’re a lay person. A child’s spiritual directors are his parents and that child is trapped until the parents decide to refer him to a different spiritual director. (This is often said by spiritually abusive people who would like to be your spiritual director.)

–Holding hands with someone can cause the demons inhabiting them to jump from host to host, so you should silently repeat a Hail Mary to repel the demons if you’re offered a hand. Other ways to become the unwitting host for a demonic possession include watching horror movies, watching music videos, trick or treating, listening to secular music, using dishes that were once used in a Satanic ritual, accidentally glancing at the horoscope section of the newspaper, not turning the channel fast enough when the Ouija board commercial comes on, and playing Dungeons and Dragons. Unbaptized people are possessed by demons. If a baby doesn’t cry during her baptism, that means the baptism didn’t take and the baby is still possessed by demons. If you die while possessed by a demon you accidentally caught, you will go to hell. Fortunately for you, most demons can be repelled with Holy Water, crucifixes, Rosaries, and playing a blessed tambourine. (Oh yes, there’s such a thing as a blessed tambourine. Ours had a ribbons and a blue wooden handle.)

–Speaking of Rosaries, not paying attention to every single word when you pray the Rosary is the same as handing the Virgin Mary a dead rose. If you do this, she will be upset with you. Also, the reason a Rosary is shaped like a circle is not because it’s a convenient shape for a rope with beads on it. It’s because the Rosary is “holy bondage binding you to the Virgin Mary.” (See my earlier comments about the Virgin Mary being portrayed as an abusive mom.)

–It’s a sin to receive Holy Communion under both species because you’re only allowed to receive Holy Communion once a day. (Never mind that Canon law doesn’t exactly say that.)

–Actually, it’s okay to receive Communion under both species because “the bread and the wine are in a hypostatic union.” (Please note that it IS okay to receive under both species, but this is my all time favorite misunderstanding of the term “hypostatic union.”)


–If you are carrying a stack of books, it’s a sin not to carry the Bible on the top. (It doesn’t matter if it’s a great big thick church Bible and the other books are skinny paperbacks; you have to defy gravity or it’s a sin.)

–And of course, everybody’s favorite: it’s a mortal sin to talk about a priest who’s been abusive in any way. You’re not allowed to warn people or comment on a newspaper article, you must protect the priest’s reputation at all costs. Telling the truth about a priest is the same as betraying Christ to His enemies just like Judas. (I blame that weird uncredited private revelation on the back of the Pieta Prayerbook for this. I probably shouldn’t. It probably has its origins somewhere else. But I blame the Pieta Prayerbook anyway.)

In all seriousness, if you have been involved in cult-like movements like the ones I’ve mentioned, you might also be carrying around a pack of superstitions like these, just as I was. And God would like to heal you. The best way to heal of trauma like that is to get a competent psychotherapist who isn’t hostile to religion but has some qualifications in counseling victims of religious trauma– and also to get a trained spiritual director, while remembering that a spiritual director’s advice isn’t law you’re going to hell for disobeying. Don’t ever try to use a spiritual director as a therapist or a therapist as a spiritual director. And if you can find somebody who does both, I wouldn’t recommend using the same person for both forms of advice. If you can’t find a spiritual director or a therapist but are trying to heal as best you can anyway, please remember that God doesn’t blame you for the mess you’re in. He is suffering with you, not judging you and certainly not smiting you like an abusive dad. The same goes for the Virgin Mary.

* The writer of this, Mary Pezzulo took the above from teachings she had from nuns and priests and from sermons in church on Sundays. For Richard - there are spelling and grammatical errors in the above copy and paste. If your knickers get into a twist please take the issue up with her.

THE FATHERS PAT AND RICH SHOW

*SPECIAL REPORT*

You won't read this anywhere else but we have secured Father Patrick Bridgman for a debate with new kid on the block (priesthood) Richard of RBB.

Fr Richard Bassbag

Moderator - The Religious Curmudgeon

THE RELIGIOUS CURMUDGEON: Hello fathers.

FATHER PATRICK BRIDGEMAN: Hello The Religious Curmudgeon.

FATHER RICHARD BASSBAG: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....

THE RELIGIOUS CURMUDGEON: What's so funny Father Richard Bassbag?

FATHER RICHARD BASSBAG:  You said "Hello fathers" and it reminded me of that Alan Sherman comedy song from the 1960s .....

THE RELIGIOUS CURMUDGEON: Yes, I remember that. Here's a link to it so you can watch it later - ON YOUR OWN TIME.  https://youtu.be/4yFTOvO0utY Can we move on?

FATHER RICHARD BASSBAG: Sheesh! Hey, you can call me Rich.

FATHER PATRICK BRIDGEMAN: And you can call me Pat.

THE RELIGIOUS CURMUDGEON: OK Rich and Pat. I'll leave you to your discussion.

PAT: Thanks TRC.

RICH: Whatever, sheesh!

PAT: Hi Rich. Look. I don't want to start on the wrong foot but, if you want to get ahead in this priest game you have to be nice so I suggest that you drop that 'sheesh' thing and stop being petulant.

RICH: But The Curmudgeon says that a lot and he gets away with ...... Oh. I see what you mean.

PAT: There you go. Now they tell me that you'll be joining us soon to help run things in the old parish. Not down I hope. Ha ha.....

RICH: Ha ha ha ha (prick!) ... yes, I'm hoping to officiate at brother Rob's parish.

PAT: Brother Rob? Marist is he?

RICH: Well he certainly likes the Virgin Mary I can tell you. No, when I say brother Rob you should pay more grammatical attention. I spelled 'brother' with a lower case 'b' because he's my actual brother not a Marist Brother. I'd have used a capital 'B' if he was one of those tossers. (Sheesh!)

PAT: Sheesh! Touchy. I'm not sure if we can accomodate you there as you see I'm your brother's parish priest and there's only a job for one.

RICH: No problem. Can I just be the priest at that Anglican church that Rob cleans. It's all the same to me? 

PAT: "All the same ..." I'm flabbergasted. Did you go to a seminary?

RICH: No. I just use a hanky.

PAT: A hanky? What? Oh ..... oh I see. Eeew.

RICH: So Pat can you put a good word in for me?

PAT: Well Rich, I don't know, because I don't know those Anglican guys. Mother told me not to play with them you see.

RICH: Well fuck that for a row of donkeys.

PAT: "A row of donkeys"? What on earth are you talking about.

RICH: I'm just practicing a few silly sayings so that I can get that Catechism nonsense over to the punters.

PAT: Look Rich. I really don't think you have your heart in this. Do you think you're making the right decision?

RICH: Well, The Curmudgeon's counting on me to secure a supply source of communion hosts. We've got this little business planned ....

PAT: That's it. I'm going to tell the bishop.

RICH: OK. whatever. Hey! Do you happen you have the phone number for that Anglican church?

HEY JOE!

 Today we have a bit of a departure from the usual references to God, Jesus, Mary and The Holy Ghost. These imaginary people and things get enough coverage. I thought that one of the lesser known and often forgotten about imaginary people in the 'Bible Story' - Joseph, Mary's 'husband' deserves a bit of a mention. It's a cold wet and windy day here but we managed to track down Joseph for an interview via Google Blogger and a good imagination.

THE RELIGIOUS CURMUDGEON: Welcome Joseph, I'm pleased to see you. It's cold so get your ass in here.

JOSEPH: Hello The Religious Curmudgeon. I'd better leave the ass outside. He's worked up a bit of a sweat and ...

THE RELIGIOUS CURMUDGEON: Ass? Oh, yeah, sorry about that. Damned American spelling. I meant 'get your arse in here' - it's a Kiwi expression and, yes, leave your ass outside.

JOSEPH: Ha , ha - hey, can I call you something else other than The Religious Curmudgeon?

THE RELIGIOUS CURMUDGEON: Sure,. You can call me Al.

JOSEPH: Al? .......Oh, I see, a joke ..... yes I like Paul Simon's songs, we don't get enough of them in Heaven unfortunately, not with all those bloody hymns and psalms and violin music going on. Um ... Al .... you can call me Joe.

AL: That's a nice coat you're wearing.

JOE: Yes, it's a dream.

Al: OK Joe. You're probably wondering why I asked you in for a chat. Well, no doubt you've been keeping up with the latest news about The Kardashians, sorry, The Royal family ... damn it no - the Religious Family ..... what do you guys call yourselves anyway?

JOE: Mmmm.. good question. Some toadies like Robert The Inconsiderate sinner refer to us as The Holy Family. Personally I think it' s a bit twee but .....

Al: The Holy Family it is then. As I was saying The Holy Family has been getting a bit of stick recently with some people saying that Jesus never existed and others, that you and Mary were more a marriage of convenience rather than the perfect couple. See: HERE and HERE

JOE: Yes, I saw that Al. You do know of course that we are all made up. We're just figments of some holy and political guys' imaginations in the 4th century and now perpetuated  by desperate, insecure and needy people

Al: Ha, ha.

JOE: It's not that funny Al.

Al: No, I was laughing at that word 'perpetual'.  When I was in Primary school there was a prayer that the nuns taught us - something about Our Lady of Perpetual Succour. We little kids misheard this as Our Lady of the Petrol Sucker. We laughed. Ha ha.

JOE: Mmmm .... as I was saying even as made up characters we do have back stories. That report about me and Mary for example implied that I was some kind of a cuckold allowing my young ...

Al: Very young.

JOE: OK, she was 14 - get over it .... my young fiancé to go off on holiday with her cousin and get shagged by some joker and when she got pregnant she made up a story that it was god or one of his proxies who got her up the duff.

Al: I've seen a good cartoon about that - here:

JOE: Yeah, I've seen that - it's good. Old imaginary god didn't like that though

Al: But it did concern you though?

JOE: Look (furtively looking around) It's just between us OK? Mary was a kid and she got into trouble. Back in those days when kids like her got up the duff and they weren't married it was called adultery and they got murdered by their stupid family and neighbours, usually by having rocks thrown at their heads. It's sort of like what's happening in USA today with those right wing Republican religious nutters ...... anyway, I helped her out by saying that I would marry her ....

Al: That's nice of you Joe but weren't you a bit old?

JOE: Mmmmm - well, there's another story to that .... look, you're open minded about this LGBQT thing aren't you?

Al: LGBQT? Yes, its not my thing but À chacun son goût I say.

JOE: Do you?

Al: No, not really, it's just a saying but I think that people should be allowed to live their lives as they want as long as they don't harm others. Robert The Inveterate sinner thinks otherwise of course.

JOE: Ha ha, yes Robert The Inebriated sinner. We in imaginary land often crack up at his latest silly wittering.

Al: OK, what about this LGBQT thing then?

JOE: Mmm ..... well, you know how the story goes that I was married before Mary and I shacked up together?

Al: Yes, I read about that - not in the silly Catechism that the nuns made us read, but somewhere.

JOE: Well, that was bullshit.

Al: The Catechism?

JOE: Well of course The Catechism is bullshit but I was talking about the previous marriage story. I wasn't married at all but, well, you know how people talk about an older guy who's never married ...?

Al: Umm, no, ummm ..... hey!

JOE: Exactly. I play or played for the other side back then.

Al: So you were .....

JOE: Yep and proud of it. Johnny and I ...

Al: Johnny?

JOE: Yes, John, my partner. Hold on .... I have a pic of us somewhere ... just a mo .... here it is:

Al: Nice. I like that beard that John , er, Johnny has.

JOE: Yes, I miss that. Anyway when things got too hot ...... I don't mean um....... you knew that us gay guys got rocks thrown at our heads too didn't you?

Al: No. The Bible and The Scriptures are a bit vague about that but I can certainly see it happening, particularly if they murdered 14 year old girls with rocks.

JOE: Yes, just like the Taliban. Anyway, Johnny and I had to split up for safety. He went off to some sort of religious retreat place and I went to Bethlehem to a distant cousin's place. She told me about her daughter and asked if I could pretend that I was the father of the prospective kid. It suited me as it gave me some cover as well as protecting her.

Al: OK, that all makes sense now. Did you and Mary ever .... you know ....?

JOE: No, give me a break

Al: So you and Mary lived out your imaginary days bringing up an imaginary kid named Jesus then?

JOE: Yeah. I'm a saint.

Al: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...

JOE: H ha ha ha ha ha haha - I like you Al, maybe we could ...

Al: No. We couldn't. So what was this Jesus character like?

JOE: Jeez! He was a right little bastard technically and by nature. He wouldn't help out with the stonemason business leaving me to .....

Al: Stonemason? I thought you were a carpenter?

JOE: Carpenters? No. Soft rock wasn't my thing. I was more into heavy rock you know.

Al: ?????

JOE: The Stones.

Al: ?????? ...... oh..... a joke. Got it.

JOE: Yeah, eventually

Al: So, this Jesus ....

JOE: He was always skiving off, making up stories and lying. When he didn't have a lot of cronies round him he'd make up imaginary friends and get these imaginary friends to report back how wonderful he was. It was sort of like Donald Trump inventing that imaginary John Barron character who would tell the Press how wonderful Trump was.

Al: Right, got it. So imaginary Jesus had imaginary friends and made up stories about exploits that never or could never happen.

JOE: Yes and this became the basis if Christianity - particularly Catholicism.

Al: It figures.

JOE: Look Al, I've got to go, I've got a sore ass ....

Al: Oh, sorry. Those new bar stools we bought haven't been worn in yet.

JOE: Bar stools? No. I mean my ass outside gets sore if I leave him alone too long. Sorry about that American expression.

Al: Ha ha. Take care Joe. Maybe you could swing by  Richard's and Robert's places on the way down South.

JOE: Good idea. The ass will be needing a dump by then and it'll be good for Robert's garden. Bye.

MARY MARY QUITE CONTRARY

We had a bit of a laugh, us Curmudgeons when we read a recent post of Robert's recounting his experience at Mass the other day when his new best friend Father Patrick banged on about the Virgin Mary.

Fr Patrick was the priest who said Mass. Of course it was the feast day of the Assumption of Mary to Heaven so praises and prayers to Mary abounded.



Father Patrick's homily was therefore about Mary and her role as someone who can show us how to live fully.

He said " ...she shows us why we were created and how to live fully, she shows us when we are most fully alive. Mary gave thanks and praise to God and served God and God's people. There is much you can do in life , much which is exciting and good. Very good. And can give great meaning indeed. But if we know that we are created to give thanks and praise to God, to serve God and to serve God's people, that gives greater meaning and a great truth to direct our lives and how to live fully and then we are most alive. Even on a Sunday morning when we might have been up early watching silly people throwing leather around in a field, we still know that we were created to give thanks and praise to God, to serve God and God's people . She realized that this was the mission of her life. This brought her fullness of life, when she gave thanks and praise to God, not only was she most alive but she brought life into the world. And yes, this is through her son, but in so many other ways.

Yes, she brought the light of Jesus into the world and she brought the light to the apostles...He has so many ways to bring life into the world.

Why were you created? Your answer to the question shapes your day.
With Mary we can bring Jesus into THIS time, a time when this world needs a message of hope and life and goodness.
And then with Mary we will be finally, one day, with God. Not something to be afraid of. For we know it is the fullness of life, Mary lived and died in thanks and praise to God in whose presence she knows fullness.
Where Mary goes we follow with thanks and praise through eternity."

What a hoot! I particularly liked that bit about Mary showing us that we are fully alive. That's helpful I guess if you wake up one morning and think that you're dead.

We also had a laugh when reading this article:

THE UNTOLD TRUTH OF MARY AND JOSEPH - GRUNGE

It's worth a read but here are some outtakes:

 A girl named Mary gets pregnant by the Holy Spirit, her fiance decides to be a solid dude and be God's kid's stepfather, she and Joseph go to another city to get counted in a census, there's no room at the inn, and she gives birth to the son of God (Jesus) in a stable surrounded by cute animals. Then three kings from far away, led by a giant star pointing out where Jesus is, show up with expensive gifts (followed by random shepherds with no gifts). Zoom out on a sweet scene of the holy family. They have to flee to Egypt to escape a murderous king later. But all is calm and all is bright for now.


THEY ALMOST BROKE UP BECAUSE MARY WAS PREGNANT

In Mary and Joseph's time, women's purity was valued as a currency, something that would sweeten the deal between marriage negotiations in family. There were no paternity tests back then—if you wanted kids that you were sure were yours, the best insurance was marrying a virgin. 
So imagine your girlfriend shows up after visiting her cousin for three months with a big ol' baby bump. Everyone, not just Joseph, was freaking out. Mary would have been considered damaged goods and not marriage material. It didn't help that she was claiming it was God's baby, not even that of a man other than Joseph. So he planned to end their engagement. 


WITHOUT JOSEPH, MARY WOULD HAVE BEEN STONED TO DEATH

Think about the story of the Nativity as if it happened today: Teenage girl from an extremely conservative society (when it comes to sex and women's rights) gets engaged, visits her cousin, and comes back visibly pregnant. Mary was an OG and kept to her story that the Holy Spirit had gotten her pregnant, but people were as skeptical of the idea back then as they would have been today.
Joseph tried to be nice about it—Matthew 1:19 describes how he planned to separate from her quietly so the public wouldn't shame her. But "shame her" is a nice way to say "stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:21 and the surrounding verses lay down the law that if a girl had sex while living with her parents (i.e. unmarried), she would be stoned to death for bringing shame upon her family.

JOSEPH SAVED JESUS'S LIFE AS A BABY

Once the angel visited Joseph and confirmed that Mary was really going to have God's kid, Joseph got on board immediately.
But this also extended to after the birth of Jesus. God, perhaps impressed by how chill Joseph had been throughout this whole ordeal, sent another angel to Joseph telling him that they had to pick up and leave immediately. He obeyed, and they fled what turned out to be a massacre of all kids in Bethlehem younger than two years old. King Herod (a.k.a. one of the best Sunday School villains) had sent people out to kill any child who might be the Messiah after running into the three kings on their way to visit Jesus. Couldn't handle any competition for the throne, apparently.

MARY AND JOSEPH DIDN'T GET INTIMATE AT ALL UNTIL AFTER JESUS WAS BORN

It's explicitly stated in the Bible that Joseph and Mary didn't consummate their marriage until after Jesus was born and they bailed to Egypt. Which makes sense, since Mary was pregnant most of the time they were initially together. And getting freaky isn't really worth it if it means your girlfriend is stoned afterward.
But even this viewpoint is pretty revolutionary in terms of how believers view Mary. There's a healthy group of people, mostly Catholic, who believe that Mary never had sex ever. The "perpetual virgin" view of Mary is used as a way to honour her alleged holiness and purity as the mother of God.

There's more interesting stuff in the article so have a read.

One thing that particularly stands out for me though is the fact that if this was all planned by that God joker he/she/it knew what was going to happen step by step. He/she/it knew then that wicked old Herod, learning of the birth of an heir to a or the kingdom other than his own sprogs, would have every other baby born in the kingdom murdered. We assume that this would have numbered in the hundreds of thousands. What a bastard - God as well as Herod. If I did believe in Jesus (who apparently never existed) and Mary and God and stuff then this part of the story would leave a very bad taste in my mouth as they all would have been aware of the consequences.