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| Mary, in the left panel can clearly be seen to being dragged up into heaven (The Assumption) while Jesus in the right panel is clearly free spiriting his way up there (The Ascension). |
As I said in my previous post I want to try to give Robert a fair chance to explain his various religious beliefs without my coming across as being too dismissive or judgemental. In the post KARL, JOHN AND ME I agreed with Robert that churches have good qualities and can be beneficial to the wellbeing of churchgoers. Robert's response was:
" "I believe in churches and religions being havens for people who are busy, sad, tired, stressed, unwell and needing some affirmation and support."So, the approach wasn't exactly a success.
So no one goes to church to joyfully worship a supreme spiritual being that created the universe and all the other realms we have never heard of?"
Nevermind, I think that I'll keep going, again without being dismissive and judgemental and, like Richard (of RBB) try to be open minded.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church has articles of faith that catholics must abide by. Now I've probably got this all wrong - Christian Doctrine for me, at Intermediate and Secondary schools was my worst subject and one that I regularly failed. I would get A pluses in the sciences and languages but D minuses in Christian Doctrine. I should have, instead of trying to remember and regurgitate the nonsense (stop being dismissive and judgemental - Ed.), just made up some 'articles of faith' myself. I couldn't I'm sure have been any more wacky.
ARTICLE 6
"HE ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN AND IS SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER"
662 "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." The lifting up of Jesus on the cross signifies and announces his lifting up by his Ascension into heaven, and indeed begins it. Jesus Christ, the one priest of the new and eternal Covenant, "entered, not into a sanctuary made by human hands. . . but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
ARTICLE 9
"SHE WAS TAKEN UP BODY AND SOUL INTO THE GLORY OF HEAVEN"
966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."
OK then. The Catholics believe, by mandate, that both Jesus and Mary went 'up to heaven' in both body and soul. Robert, as a reborn catholic must then believe this. Fair enough. He's a mature and grown man. He can believe whatever he wants to believe. What I want to know then is what is his reading of this.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that these people, who history seems to prove existed, somehow went up to heaven. This raises some questions:
What is heaven?
Why is it up?
If these people went up body and soul, why didn't gravity bring them down again?
What kind of propulsion was involved?
I believe that I'm not being dismissive and judgemental in asking these questions.
I'm hoping that Robert can provide some insights.
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Rockets?
ReplyDeleteWell done on finding these. I've been looking for a free copy of the Catechism.
ReplyDeleteI'll try to answer anyway based mainly on listening to Catholic Answers podcasts.
1. Heaven is a place. Yes we will have both a body and soul in heaven. Perfection is required to get there because God is perfect.
Some like Tracey say we can not go to Heaven unless we take everyone else with us. Others like Luke say how can we be happy in Heaven if we are looking down on our relatives and friends possibly burning in hell.
I think we ourselves will make the choice in the end.
2. Why is it up? Obviously it's not really up. As Tracey says the Catholic church teaches children that Noah built an ark and as they get older change the story to bring in carbon dated catastrophes.
3. Gravity is an invention of God that can be changed when ever the creator wishes as in miracles.
4. A lot of things float in the atmosphere.
"A lot of things float in the atmosphere." Very, very small stones. Bad smells. Feathers. The crimes committed by Catholic clergy.
ReplyDelete1. "Heaven is a place"
ReplyDeleteYes David Byrne wrote a nice song about this - 'Heaven' of which I wrote about recently (look it up).
Heaven
Heaven is a place
A place where nothing
Nothing ever happens
Heaven
Heaven is a place
A place where nothing
Nothing ever happens
2. "Why is it up? Obviously it's not really up."
Crap. Why then does the Catechism, priests, nuns, brothers and popes tell us it is? You can't just change the rules to suit the narrative you know ...... oh, that's right .... you do.
3. "Gravity is an invention of God that can be changed when ever the creator wishes as in miracles."
See (2) for an explanation, not that it helps as this is just too ridiculous to be explained.
4. "A lot of things float in the atmosphere."
Yes, ash, pollution, birds, although I haven't seen any angels and certainly not a virgin Mary and her adult illegitimate son Jesus.