FINDING FAULT

 

I'm up for a challenge.

Robert the apoplectic sinner said this in his latest post:

He also said, in a comment on my last post:

"So if the only reason you are not Catholic is because catholics are human and sinners then welcome back to the church! Obviously you have no problem with the Creed."

Can I find fault in the catholic creed?

Can I find fault in the basic premise of the catholic church?

Here goes:

It starts with the Nicene Creed - which is kind of like the minutes of a meeting had by church elders in the 4th century:

NICENE CREED (Professed at Sunday Mass) 

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father; God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God; begotten not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again, in fulfillment of the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen. 

This is shortened to The Apostles Creed for users who obviously have a bit of attention span deficit going on:

APOSTLE'S CREED (used with the holy rosary).

 I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen. 

There's also a very long bit of nonsense known as The Athanasian Creed which has the same stuff as the others have but is stretched out a bit in an attempt to show it is a serious piece of work. It certainly is a piece of something. It differs from the Nicene and Apostles' creeds in the inclusion of anathemas or condemnations of those who disagree with the creed.

ATHANASIAN CREED

 1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; 2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. 3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; 4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. 5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. 6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. 7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. 8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. 9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible. 10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. 11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal. 12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. 13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty. 14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. 15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; 16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. 17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; 18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord. 19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; 20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords. 21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. 22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. 23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. 24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. 25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another. 26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal. 27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. 28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity. 29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. 30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. 31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world. 32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. 33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. 34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ. 35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God. 36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. 37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; 38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; 39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty; 40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. 41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies; 42. and shall give account of their own works. 43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. 44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

OK so far?

Tempting as it is to go through each 'argument' of the Athanasian Creed and put in refutes, there is only so much time available to us all and we have other things to do. Maybe Robert will enlighten us. I've decided to pick on analyse the shortest of the three - the Apostle's Creed.

APOSTLE'S CREED 

 I believe in God - well, sorry but I don't but, to be fair, the people who recite this probably do.

.. the Father Almighty - OK, who gave this geezer that accolade? As Robert would say "where's the proof?",

 Creator of heaven and earth - no, that is supposition not fact and in reality is, well, unreal or false. Moving on ...

 and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord - no, no I don't. See the opening comment. Why a capital H in his? Who made him a lord? Where did he come from?

 who was conceived by the Holy Spirit - oh, there you go but what's this Holy spirit thing? Is it another figment of someone's imagination?

born of the Virgin Mary - oookaay. So this holy spirit 'conceived' Jesus although I think that they meant impregnated the recipient Mary and she conceived - but, hold on - it says that Mary is or was a virgin at the time. I can go along with that but it seems that after penetration, conception and impregnation she remained a virgin. Sure, sure, you're putting me on.

suffered under Pontius Pilate - true but a bit of historical explanation via footnotes would be handy here. Pontius Pilate was the Roman Governor of Judaea in the time of Jesus Christ and represented the power of Rome which was overseeing the Judaean kingdom nominally headed up by Herod. When Jesus rode into Jerusalem proclaiming himself King it was a direct threat and challenge to both Judaea and Rome so, not that I'm condoning it, Jesus had to be suppressed by Rome. Ok, moving on ...

was crucified, died, and was buried.  - yep, there are enough historical records to show that. It's nice to finally get a bit of truth and facts going ..... whoah! .....

 ......... He descended into hell - where did that come from? What's hell? Do you have to go down to it? How do you get there - on an escalator?

 the third day He arose again from the dead - now it's just getting silly, not that it wasn't earlier. What were those Nicean conference delegates smoking?

 He ascended into heaven - What? How the hell (sorry) did he do that" What's heaven" Why is it up? How do you get there? Is there an up as well as a down escalator. I'm sorry but there seems to be a lot of stuff in here that hasn't been explained and defies logic.

 sits at the right hand of God, the Father almighty - there's that god guy again, still proclaiming to be almighty which is a self-granted accolade.

from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead - wow! that stuff they smoked must have been laced with an hallucinogenic. Jesus is supposed to come to earth again and not only judge the living but also the dead? I'd like to see that happen. Really, I would like to see that.

 I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen. 

- yeah, the initial flashes of crazy inspiration seems to have deserted the fabricators of this and, like Alistair Maclean does with his novels, there is a hurry to get to the end so a whole heap of unsubstantiated stuff gets tossed in, in pretence of conclusion.

"Can I find fault in the creed?" asked Robert. Hell yes.

Can I find fault in the basic premise of the catholic church? Well, if the 'basic premise' is based on the above ridiculous premise then - hell yes.

JUST WHEN ROBERT THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE TO CALL HIMSELF A CATHOLIC AGAIN .....

     . and then this new documentary series hits the TV airwaves.

REVELATION


A ground-breaking documentary series on the criminal priests and brothers of the Catholic Church.
Award-winning reporter Sarah Ferguson presents Revelation, a ground-breaking documentary series on the criminal priests and brothers of the Catholic church, their crimes laid bare for the first time in their own words.A groundbreaking documentary series on the criminal priests and brothers of the Catholic Church.

Award-winning reporter Sarah Ferguson presents Revelation, a ground-breaking documentary series on the criminal priests and brothers of the Catholic church, their crimes laid bare for the first time in their own words.

The links that I tried to insert from DocPlay and IMDb wouldn't work so you will have to search for it yourself - IF YOU DARE!

HERE'S WHAT IMDb has to say about it though:

Award-winning reporter Sarah Ferguson presents Revelation, a ground-breaking documentary series on the criminal priests and brothers of the Catholic Church, their crimes laid bare for the first time in their own words. In a series of television firsts, Revelation features interviews with two of Australia's worst serial paedophiles - an ordained priest and a religious brother - and takes cameras into court to follow the drama of their criminal trials. Ferguson's compelling interviews are the first insiders' accounts of the system of protection and cover-up that allowed its members to get away with such heinous crimes for so long. Follow Ferguson into a maximum-security prison to meet the most notorious member of one of the most notorious religious orders. Join her as she travels to Ireland and the Vatican to ask senior church figures to explain the evil in their midst. The unmissable final chapter transports you to the heart of power in the global Catholic church. This is the story of a man who has kept a shocking secret for decades. Until now.

I did manage to find this YouTube trailer for it.

REVELATION - YOUTUBE

Enjoy. 

A DISCOVERY

 Now, before I start this post I want to say that I'm not 'parallel universing.* OK?

Richard wrote a pretty good post about his stapler HERE

I know, I know it is a bit sad but it has been raining down where he lives and he is isolated so, short of joining The Friendless Society, sad blog posting keeps him occupied.

THE CURSE - IVOR CUTLER

Well today when I was looking for something in one of the storage boxes in the study above the wardrobe -

I found this:

It's a Swingline wall stapler made in the USA. I've had it for a few years now and think it was from the picture framing gallery we owned. It was there before we bought the business 12 years ago and it looks very old. It looks a bit rough but I can assure you that it works very well. It takes heavy, industrial-type staples not those namby pamby staples you find in normal paper staplers not unlike the one that Richard was promoting in his post. This baby will drive a heavy duty staple right through wood, plaster, plastic and anything else you care to try it on including fingers, arms and thighs - believe me I've done this.

I don't know what it was doing amongst one of the boxes of computer cords and connections but I've now put it in the 'stapler' drawer next to the computer desk.

It should be safe in here

I've taken over the four right hand drawers in the dresser that is in the study, for items relating to the study. The stapler drawer is one of them.

Here are the other three:

One drawer is for pens and pencils; one for paper punches, scissors and business cards; the last is for various computer software things.  

I did this so as to keep like things with like instead of just having a big jumble of things in a box. The observant reader will notice that a couple of the drawers are getting into a bit of a jumble themselves. I blame The Old Girl.

Well that it for now. I'd better go. Geoff is coming today for Easter and The Old Girl is doing a lot of unnecessary cleaning and tidying and I'm expecting to be on vacuuming and floor washing duty any moment now.

* Parallel universing is where when someone tells ann interesting, or even a not very interesting story, the listener or someone else jumps in and recounts a similar story that relates to them. It's considered to be the height of bad manners.

THE ORIGIN OF EASTER

This new post was necessitated by a misleading post by this guy:

Evil Doctor Richard

See his post: HERE

FACTS ABOUT EASTER

This is a good study and I hope that you read it and didn't just copy and paste it like I did. Here are some takeouts from it:

• Easter is quite similar to other major holidays like Christmas and Halloween, which have evolved over the last 200 years or so. In all of these holidays, Christian and non-Christian (pagan) elements have continued to blend together.
• Most major holidays have some connection to the changing of seasons. 
• The naming of the celebration as “Easter” seems to go back to the name of a pre-Christian goddess in England, Eostre. 
• The name stuck, and  Easter remains the name by which the English, Germans and Americans refer to the festival of Jesus’ resurrection.
  
• Christian 'Easter' is connected to the celebration of Jewish 'Passover' as some early Christians chose to celebrate the resurrection of Christ on the same date as the Jewish Passover.

Hey, no need to thank me - that's what this blog is for - to be informative.*

Now that you are familiar with going to links here are a few more interesting and informative posts about Easter:

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

Well, no doubt you enjoyed that little catch up.

Happy Eostre everyone.

* While expending the least amount of energy.

• 
  
  

BEWARE OF THE GOD

I worried, in one of my dreams last night whether Robert's dog Jaxon was going to heaven or not. To go to heaven, under Robert's church's rules, Jaxon would have to be a catholic since, according to the silly rules of the catholic church, only catholics who have confessed their sins can go to heaven. Everyone else including even the most 'god-fearing' non-catholics have to go to hell apparently.


I checked up on the catholic church's rules just to make sure (Robert has been known to get things wrong) and discovered this on a site named Catholic Answers:


Question:
What happens to pets when they die? Are they allowed into heaven?
Answer:
In order to answer the question we must first define heaven. According to the Catechism, heaven is a “state of supreme, definitive happiness” that involves a perfect “communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed” (CCC 1024).
This definitive state of human happiness and communion of life and love presupposes the powers of rational knowledge and love, which animals do not have. Therefore, no non-human animal would be able to experience “heaven” as defined.


Sorry Jaxon.


Catholic Answers went on to say that even if animals had the powers of rational knowledge and love, they still wouldn't be allowed into heaven because they don't have souls.


Oh yeah, the catholic church are at it again with their slippery and weasley logic. If they seem to contradict themselves they just throw in a few more contradictions and nonsense to confuse the 'believers'.


I decided to look up 'soul' and got this dictionary meaning:

SOUL

noun

1.

the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

2.

emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance.

OK, it seems that Catholic Answers is at loggerheads with the English language. No real surprises there I guess as they are doubtless at loggerheads with reason, sanity, commonsense, history, philosophy, judgement, science and a whole lot of other things.


What is a soul though?


Here's what the catholic church and, indeed, christianity has to say on the subject ..........










 ..............  Just kidding. I won't subject any of you to the mealy mouthed idiocy that exists trying to justify this stupid christian belief. Believe me, there are millions of pages of this stuff which mostly goes along the lines of this:

The soul is basically our mind, our emotions, and our will. It is who we are as human beings. But it is also used to express God. As written in Luke 1:46-47, Mary’s Song, “And Mary said: My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.”
In this verse, we can see that Mary uses her soul to glorify God and then uses the spirit to rejoice in what God has done to save her. Glorifying God is a human behavior and human responsibility. We express our humanity to God through our soul, and we magnify His power and presence through our soul.
Although we express God’s magnanimity in our soul, we can never express God’s power through our soul because it is our humanity. We can do good works and be godly and still fall short. We can never express God’s love for us through our soul alone. We then need the spirit to express God’s love.

I gave up after that.

OH YE OF TOO MUCH FAITH*

 * With apologies to the Gospel of Luke 12:28 - " Wherfore yf God so cloth the grasse, yt is to daye in ye felde, and tomorow shalbe cast in to the fornace, how moch more shal he clothe you, o ye of litle faith?" who was only just better at spelling than Robert is.

 I'm making reference to those cynical bastards who head up the Destiny Church who prey upon hardworking and low earning people with too much 'faith' in them who fund these bastards' lavish lifestyle.

These arseholes fled Auckland on the deadline of the Level 3 CODID-19 lockdown so they could get to Level 2 regions in order to continue their 'evangelising'.

Why do I write evangelising in inverted commas?

Here's why:

DESTINY CHURCH LEADERS LEAVE AUCKLAND 

Did you read that? If not, no matter as I can take out the key points for you. Just trust me.

But the Tamakis weren't prepared to be confined by the lockdown, so headed to Rotorua where Destiny has a church.

The following morning, Hannah Tamaki took to the stage during the Sunday service to explain their reasons.

"So of course we escaped down to Rotorua, got here just after 12am because the shutdown was at 6am, and Mark and Daniel got down here to help us do this," she said.

"But it was better for us to be here - be in the atmosphere, be able to do this for you. So thank you for all the team that has made this happen."

Tamaki went on to encourage members to do more than just tithe to the church.

"The thing about Brian and I the whole time is that we've always believed you never come to the house of the Lord empty-handed, even though you may do an AP [automatic payment].


"One dollar coin, two dollar coin, bring something into the house of the Lord. Bring what you can, over and above, because really it's the offering where God commands the blessing.

"The tithe is being obedient, so you bring 10 per cent. That belongs to God. And then you get to thrive on the 90 per cent.

"And then if you go over and above and give a little bit more for an offering, that's where God commands the blessing. So it's up to you - you make the decision, you make the choice."

She described the blessings that people could expect in return, like new cars, while an unknown number of people in the crowd clapped and cheered.

"If you're still thinking, 'Where's my jubilee blessing?' It's coming. You be patient, you just keep speaking it in faith, you be thanking the Lord in advance for what he's going to bring to you.

"I mean, we had a jubilee blessing that we didn't even ask for - we got given a Tesla. Hello? You know, we didn't need another car but the abundance of God is for his children, so I'm not going to say I'm going to sell that car, give it away. No, it was given to me."

Brian Tamaki, who describes himself as an apostle, explained his reasons for getting out of Auckland.

"We're on lockdown three in Auckland, that means there's to be no business for seven days. I made a decision with Hannah to go out before the 6am road blockages by the police and we can't get out for seven days.

"I'd be locked in my house. Gardening is okay, but I think I'll be more productive out in the rest of the country."

And he urged his followers not to fear the virus.

"God said that no plague will come near your house: 'I will send angels to guard and look after those who are in the secret place with God'.

Well what do you think of that?

Unfortunately the dupes who give their money to these charlatans most likely won't see it as a further effort to screw money out of them. I'm not going to say that they're idiots as maybe they haven't got enough understanding and awareness of these scamsters and that they're blinded by the faith that they have. They likely won't see the Tamaki's escape as cowardly and opportunistic either, preferring to believe the lies they tell about them doing this in the interests of 'ministry'.

OK, we all do or should know about this Destiny Church and its dodgy practices but this latest gouging on top of shameful and dangerous conduct raises the bar of disgusting behaviour. I just wonder what the public response from the catholic church and other 'established' religions in New Zealand. To my mind they have a burden of responsibility to condemn this.

 

CRUEL, VINDICTIVE AND ELITIST?

 

OK, Johnny Rotten might not be the best example to use.



Let's try this one:


.

Robert who goes by the blog name MEDIEVIL sic BROTHER ROB said in a comment on one of his recent posts:

"I've had a close look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church and I do not find it cruel, vindictive or elitist. Maybe quote something that you do not like from the Catechism and I will do my best to find an explanation based on love and truth."

 I thought that it needs verification so. bear with me, I've had a look at the Catholic Catechism and will here attempt to interpret and or expose as silly, its tenets. This might take a while and may have to carry over to a few posts as there is a lot of silliness in the Catechism.

Here goes ..........

............................ oops! I just discovered that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is 848 pages long and that's just the simple version..

I think we'll give that a miss.

Here are some links to (just a ) few posts I've written with references to the Catechism. Have a look at these and, if you are still interested, I will review the entire Catechism of the Catholic Church and come up with things that I "do not like" and see if Robert can "find an explanation based on love and truth."

I like a good challenge

START MAKING SENSE

CATHOLIC CATACLYSM

GETTING SERIOUS

A LITTLE BIT OF NONSENSE